In this episode of AyahuascaPodcast.com host Sam Believ has a conversation with Danielle Nova on the topics of Addiction Recovery and psychedelics.
We touch upon subjects of addiction recovery, drawbacks of 12 step program, role your beliefs play in your addiction recovery process, how Ayahuasca can help, microdosing vs normal dosage and more.
Find more about Danielle here
Transcript
Sam Believ (00:01.243)
Hi guys and welcome to ayahuascapodcast .com as always with you the host Sambiliyev. Today we’re interviewing Danielle Nova. She is executive director of San Francisco Psychedelic Society. She is a founder of Psychedelic Recovery, co -founder of Metamorphosis Medicines. She’s a transformational guide and she counsels people through addiction recovery and psychedelic integration. Danielle, welcome to the podcast.
Danielle Nova (00:30.062)
Thank you so much, Sam. I’m honored to be here. Really appreciate the invite.
Sam Believ (00:35.647)
Daniel, the topic for today of course will be the addiction recovery and the role psychedelics play in it. But before we talk about the topic in general, I think it would make sense to start with yourself a bit about your story, your own story of recovery and the role that psychedelics and ayahuasca played in it.
Danielle Nova (00:58.222)
Amazing, yeah, so I, where do I begin? I spent most of my upbringing ever since I was 11 years old running away from myself, running away from my life, running away from my emotions that developed into drug addiction in my early teenage years. It started with cannabis and alcohol and that led to cocaine.
and methamphetamine and opioids. And I was actually quite the psychedelic advocate in high school. I was using MDMA and really big in the rave scene, taking mushrooms and trying to get other people around me to get interested in psychedelics. During that time, I experienced several friends who took their own lives in high school, which created a spiritual awakening for me. I started viewing life differently and questioning the nature of reality and
feeling quite separate from my peers to have that experience at such a young age and trying to understand what is life, what is death, why are we here? And that the experiences that I had with the anxiety and depression led me to outsourcing my power. And my parents sent me to a psychiatrist and I went on psychological pharmaceutical drugs at…
16 years old. And by the time I was graduating high school, I was on like five or six different medications for anxiety, depression, PTSD. And I spent most of the rest of 12 years dependent on psychiatric drugs, prescribed hundreds of psychiatric drugs in and out of eight different rehabs. I got very addicted to opioids. I was addicted to OxyContin for six years and then Suboxone. I dabbled in heroin.
and really, really suffered. I was basically a complete slave to addiction for 15 years. And yeah, finally woke up one day and realized that all these drugs that I was taking to help myself were actually hurting me. And I wanted to see what life was like off of all these medications. And I started healing myself.
Sam Believ (03:18.587)
So first of all, congratulations and I’m really happy for you and I’m happy you, you know, beat your addiction. You obviously look great and you do great stuff with your life. What was your process of recovery and what role psychedelics played in it?
Danielle Nova (03:40.558)
It was a long process of suffering. And once I decided to come off of the medications, I really didn’t have a lot of support. My family did not want me to come off of medications. They were scared for me. The doctor had no idea how to get someone off of medications either. I was the first patient to ever come off of any of these medications. And so I slowly started to titrate off of, I was on five medications at that time.
I slowly started to titrate off of them. It took me years and I ended up having to cold turkey two of them, which is extremely dangerous, especially with benzodiazepines. You can die from that. And that caused something called protracted withdrawal syndrome, where I was basically withdrawing from drugs for acutely for over 18 months. I lost my ability to talk, walk, function. I, I,
I couldn’t speak, I couldn’t take care of myself, I couldn’t do basic things like my laundry or make food for myself. I was completely debilitated. And around nine months in, a friend invited me into an ayahuasca ceremony and I was suicidally depressed. Like I almost died from coming off of all these medications. I was having, I had a seizure and I just said, I have nothing to lose. Let’s see if this helps me. And after that first ceremony,
With ayahuasca, it created more withdrawal for me in the ceremony itself. It was kind of like turning the knob up on the radio dial in terms of the intensity of the withdrawal process, but it expedited my healing process for me. And after that first ceremony, I felt like faith that I could heal myself and that I was going to get better. And ayahuasca said, I’m going to show you a new way. And I felt…
better after that first ceremony. It didn’t heal me. You know, I’m such an advocate for saying, for teaching people that it’s just not one experience, right? It’s a process of change and transformation. But that first night really showed me that I can do this and I can live life free from addiction. And so I started working with ayahuasca every month for over a year and it completely transformed my life. It brought…
Danielle Nova (06:03.694)
She brought me back to my purpose on this planet, why I’m here. She helped me heal my withdrawal syndrome that I was dealing with. Then I started working with microdosing of mushrooms that really helped me get out of the house. I was quite agoraphobic at the time. It was hard for me to even leave the house and mushrooms started to bring me out of my comfort zone and help me heal my brain. And I worked with iboga at one point.
which was very detoxifying, just like the ayahuasca, lots of purging. I was toxic, taking hundreds of medications, millions of pills. That made my body extremely toxic, and I had a lot to let go of, and a lot of belief systems, and suffering to let go of. It was very powerful and transformative for me, not just definitely on a spiritual level, but also a physiological level.
And that’s what I feel so excited about. Ayahuasca has the potential to physiologically help people heal withdrawals from getting off of these medications because there’s millions of people on medications. My story is not unique. I’m unique in the fact that I was able to get off of them and use psychedelics to support that process.
Sam Believ (07:20.155)
Well, once again, congratulations and being strong enough to sort of just plow through for nine months by yourself without even help of ayahuasca is very impressive. And yeah, with ayahuasca it is like that when there is some kind of pain before it gets better, it gets worse. So I can imagine how it just brought it all up and made it even.
even stronger. You described that detoxing or sort of getting off the medical. So first of all, you said that you’ve been prescribed everything there was and nothing was helping. And then they told you to smoke cigarettes and drink coffee. Can you tell us that story?
Danielle Nova (08:08.896)
Yeah, I tried every medication possible. I was prescribed, I tried so many different antidepressants. I’ve tried every anti -anxiety medication. So many mood stabilizing medications, was on Adderall, was on sleeping medications. Put on, I remember when I came off of the opioids, my addiction to OxyContin,
I was put on 15 medications just to get off of the opioids, you know, for restless leg syndrome and all these ways that they do medication assisted detoxes basically. And I remember suffering so much with my mental health and I could hardly function. And I went to my psychiatrist and I asked him, you know, do you have any other medications that I can try? These aren’t working. And he said, well, no.
I’ve prescribed you all the medications. Like I don’t have any other medications. Why don’t you smoke more cigarettes or drink more coffee? And at that point, it was really a spiritual message that this person can’t help me and that the medications can’t help me. And maybe it’s not the medications that I need to feel better. Maybe it’s coming off of them. And so that was a big turning point in my recovery journey to.
lose complete faith in the pharmaceutical paradigm that I was subscribing to and take my power back.
Sam Believ (09:44.667)
It’s interesting that I don’t really know exactly what were the symptoms, but you described being very spiritual when you were younger. And a lot of times spirituality is confused with mental disease. Like if somebody says, you know, they see stuff or feel stuff, even if it’s true, nobody cares. They just think maybe you’re schizophrenic or something like that. Have you experienced that sort of, was that the part of the issue?
Danielle Nova (10:14.51)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think that, you know, I really identify with being an indigo child or an indigo adult. And the indigo paradigm is that we’re highly sensitive, highly spiritual, very intuitive. We feel a lot. And oftentimes that’s a theme with people that have gone through addiction is that they feel a lot and they’re very sensitive. And…
We have all been raised in a society that doesn’t support feeling. It’s a society that the current predominant paradigm is to suppress your feelings, or if that you feel a lot, it’s too much because we weren’t raised to process our emotions. I know that my parents never taught me how to sit with my emotions and process my emotions. I was always too sensitive or too much. And my grandparents certainly…
don’t even know what it means to process emotions, I’ve asked my grandmother. And that’s just, you know, how it’s been passed down. And so we’re really the first generation to acknowledge that we have feelings and to learn how to feel safe in processing them. And so that was the fact that I was feeling so much and so awakened in the world was looked at as there’s something wrong with you and you need to be controlled and medicated.
because they didn’t know how to handle me, basically. And now I understand what it is, but back then I really internalized it as there was something wrong with me and believed in all these mental illness labels that they have to give you in order to prescribe you medications. And it’s completely false, you know, from my experience. And other people might identify with, you know, having anxiety and depression and bipolar and whatever these labels that they want to subscribe to.
But at the core of it, I really think it’s a highly intuitive, highly sensitive being that also has underlying trauma. And that trauma can manifest in mood dysregulation and risky behavior or addictive behavior because it’s an attempt to solve the underlying issue. It’s an attempt to solve the problem.
Sam Believ (12:22.907)
Well, I can imagine if you’re a sensitive child and you live in a world where there’s a lot of pain around, then obviously your experience is not going to be the most blissful. And then if you see it as a disease, then you’re going to start taking medications and nothing is going to help. You mentioned the labels and can you talk a little bit about the role those belief systems play in addiction?
Danielle Nova (12:50.73)
Absolutely. I’m really passionate about this because I came from a framework, especially going to all these rehabs and treatment centers where you have to admit that you’re an addict. I remember the first rehab I went to, they had me take a test and the test came out that I was a cocaine addict and I wasn’t a cocaine addict at that time, but I started believing it.
and really identifying with, oh, I’m gonna be an addict for the rest of my life. And I remember making new friends in the 12 -step program and being like congratulated for claiming that identity. The two words, I am, as you know, are the most powerful statements possible because we continue to program our consciousness to believe these things about ourselves. So for so long, I believed that I am an addict and I was told I was gonna be an addict for the rest of my life.
And I believed that I had this disease of addiction and that it was something that was going to be with me for the rest of my life. Now I understand that that’s not true and that my identity is not an addict. I don’t believe that I’m an addict. I don’t believe I’m gonna be an addict for the rest of my life. I don’t believe that I am what happened to me. And I think that’s something that can happen is so much of our identity gets wrapped around in.
the trauma that we’ve been through or the amount of clean or recovery time that we have, but we are so much more than that. And that’s what psychedelics can really teach us is that process of unlearning, you know, and coming home to the soul. As we know with ayahuasca, it’s such an ego dissolving medicine. You know, she doesn’t care about these identities that we give ourselves. She teaches us to come home, the vine of the soul, to come home to the soul of who we are at the soul level, beyond all these identities, because really the suffering is in the identities.
And I feel so passionate about teaching people that they, even though they might be identifying with some identity right now, it’s not fixed. The identities can change. And potentially the identities and the labels that we give ourselves are actually keeping us in the paradigm of sick consciousness that we don’t want to be for ourselves anymore. And that we can liberate ourselves. And a lot of that liberation comes from the identity.
Danielle Nova (15:10.894)
that we attach ourselves to.
Sam Believ (15:14.619)
That’s, those are all very great words. I totally agree. So you overcame your own addiction and now I know you’re helping others. For those who are listening, can you maybe outline how the process looks like? How long does it take? What are the steps and what is, how is your approach different?
because I believe you work with what’s called trauma informed approach.
Danielle Nova (15:46.062)
That’s right, exactly. Well, I’m currently developing the framework. I’ve taken my clients, my one -on -one clients through this process and I wish I could say exactly how long it’s going to take or what it’s going to be like for each person. As it’s so personalized, as you know, everyone’s coming to this with different background and different addictions. Sometimes it’s substance addictions, sometimes it’s…
straight substance addiction to street drugs or substance addiction to medications or even addictions to behaviors. But the most important starting step is someone that wants to change. And that the desire for change is more powerful than any psychedelic medicine themselves. And maybe some people aren’t ready. I know I wasn’t for a long time and it took me a while to get ready. I wasn’t done. I had more learning to do with addiction. And I am curious about,
psychedelics potentially helping people become more ready. It could encourage people in that process of change. So, you know, there’s different levels in which we might introduce the psychedelic medicines, but mostly I would say having that desire for change is the number one starting step. You might not know what’s causing your addiction, but it’s important to have that desire that you’re willing to do whatever it takes to heal. Then the next step would be
to set up a support system, to have people around you that are really going to support you in this process. That’s super important. Whether it’s a community, we have our psychedelic recovery community, your family support, you know, working with a practitioner, a coach, a guide, having some type of support system is really important. And then committing to a program or process. And I encourage people to commit to either a month,
or a year of saying, okay, I’m gonna see what this is like and give myself a year to transform. And because it’s not an overnight process, it wasn’t that for me. It was months and years of suffering and healing, really, that got me to where I am now and I’m still healing. It’s a process that takes time, but having that commitment is super important. And then taking a look at your life and getting really real and saying, what is not working?
Danielle Nova (18:07.022)
You know, like I can’t do that for someone. It has to come from that person from within. And for me, it was, I am a slave to addiction. These medications are not working for me. And I had to set up a plan and a process to get off of them. So, you know, depending on what substance or behavior someone’s doing, there’s different approaches to addiction recovery. For some people, it might be a slow titration process. And especially for medications, that’s really important that people titrate slowly.
If it’s a substance addiction, maybe someone wants to slowly come off of heroin. Maybe someone just needs to interrupt that process, you know, very abruptly. I don’t know what’s going to be, you know, people might have to try different approaches, but make sure that the approach in which you’re trying is appropriate for the substance that you’re taking. And especially if you’re getting off medications, you need to have the support of a doctor to help you come off of them. And one that’s going to support you in doing that. And…
And you know, for certain addictions, psychedelics are only appropriate after you’ve been off of the substance for a certain amount of time. So it’s important to understand any type of contraindications that might be at play and commit to facing your shadows. Commit to the darkness. Unless we move through the darkness, we’re going to be forever enslaved by it.
And so much, you know, for me, addiction wasn’t just around removing the substance addiction, because ultimately what the research shows, it’s not about the substance being addictive. It’s about the underlying issues that we’re running away from. And that’s why we soothe ourselves with substances or behaviors. And so making sure that you’re ready to start to face the things that you’ve been running away from. For me, it was underlying trauma. It was…
emotions, it was disconnection, self -sabotage from myself, that I have to face all of that in the recovery process. And I know that I can. I know that there’s so much more freedom in facing that than running away from that. But people have to be ready for that. And it’s probably going to be a process of unwinding and unlearning. But give yourself at least, I think, a year to really commit to that process. And there’s so many more nuances within
Danielle Nova (20:29.934)
within this framework, but a lot of it is around once you start your healing process, especially with psychedelics, identifying the beliefs that you have around yourself and the relationship that you have with yourself. For me, I recognize that I hated myself for so long. I did not love myself. And the process of healing addiction is falling back in love with yourself and giving to yourself the love and care that you desire, that you were running away from. And…
For a lot of people going through addiction, they feel a void, and it’s really the void of the divine. It’s the void of God. It’s the void of us. I believe we are a fractal of the divine, and we’re trying to fill that void with substances when really it’s us that we’re seeking. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. We are the love we’ve been seeking, and healing addiction is about giving that to ourselves.
Sam Believ (21:23.899)
Yeah, the healing will always come from within. You mentioned something about people who are quitting substances and they want to start working with psychedelics. For example, if somebody is ready and they have been sober for a while, a lot of times people like this, whether it’s alcohol or other substances, they’re very suspicious of psychedelics.
regarding seeing them as just some other drugs and then being worried about getting addicted to it. So what would you tell someone who’s afraid to be, to get addicted to ayahuasca for example, and what is your language in sort of defining the difference between medicines and drugs?
Danielle Nova (22:08.654)
I think, well, first of all, it’s very common, especially in people that have been previously addicted to substances to be concerned about that. And that shows a high level of care for your recovery journey. So I really honor that. And for me, I believe that, and this is what I’ve been taught by the natives, that any substance can be abused. It’s all about your relationship with it.
and your intentions behind it. And for me, I had an irreverent relationship with the medications I was taking. I didn’t have any intention behind it. I was giving my power away. I wanted them to fix me and heal me. You could still bring that energy to ayahuasca. You could still try to escape yourself with ayahuasca. The medicine will definitely probably won’t let you do that. But it’s so important to come to the medicine, a humble student, and with the intention that…
I’m using this as a tool for metamorphosis. I’m using this as a tool for transformation. I’m using this as a tool to learn and teach and heal and to be in the right relationship with it. To not come to the psychedelics to abuse them or escape yourself with them or to become, you know, to create a habit around it, but to really use it as an opportunity to redefine your relationship with substances. And, um, it,
And that takes a certain level of integrity in the addiction recovery process. Some people might not have that, you know, some people might start abusing psychedelics. I’ve seen it happen a lot. It is possible, you know, they’re not immune from being abused. So it’s really important to being in right relationship with them and, you know, come with and making sure you’re doing the integration work, especially giving space after the ceremonies, using them to heal and transform your life and not.
just going back into old patterns or behaviors or trying to give yourself excuses. A lot of psychedelics are non -addictive in their signatures like ayahuasca, psilocybin mushrooms, aminida muscaria, iboga. They tend to be more anti -addictive, especially when it comes to the research studies around them. And they can even be interrupters for addiction, which is so exciting that they can literally interrupt that process of addiction. And I believe that a lot of that happens through,
Danielle Nova (24:32.078)
these neural pathways. Like addiction is such a deeply ingrained neural pathway. If you do something over and over again, you’re going to become addicted to something, right? It’s like the definition of a disease model is that it changes your brain. And, you know, if you take a substance every single day, it’s going to create a neural pathway. And what’s so excited about psychedelics is that they can actually interrupt these neural pathways, and you can create new ones and learn how to live.
free of substances, which is incredibly powerful for someone that has spent most of their life addicted to substances. But it takes work, and it takes intention and integrity, you know, and being really real with yourself around how you’re using these substances.
Sam Believ (25:17.435)
Yeah, very well explained. Yeah, regarding getting addicted to ayahuasca, I can’t really imagine somebody, you know, under the bridge in the streets of a big city drinking ayahuasca and like throwing up.
Danielle Nova (25:28.59)
true.
Sam Believ (25:31.227)
It’s, I’ve never heard about anyone getting addicted to ayahuasca. However, I’ve seen people that come to it over and over again and get the same information, maybe get a temporary relief, but never really do the homework. And it’s nice how self -guiding the medicines are. When, when you do that, you then notice that you come back to the medicine too quick and it tells you like,
you haven’t done the homework and it gives you a terrible trip, you know, the sort of tough love. Have you noticed that maybe in your own experience or?
Danielle Nova (26:06.382)
Oh yeah, exactly. No one’s going to get addicted to ayahuasca, but they, you know, I’ve seen people that are habitually going to ceremony many times a month, but not doing any of the integration work and not really changing anything in their lives. And I think that’s such an important component, you know, to the ayahuasca experience. And from what the research shows around neuroplasticity and neurogenesis is that,
Yes, psychedelics like ayahuasca can open up these new neural pathways, create new connections in the brain, but neuroplasticity in and of itself is inherently neutral. So it can be negatively influenced or positively influenced. Like let’s say after ceremony, if I went immediately back to chain smoking cigarettes and on my phone 24 hours a day, it’s going to ingrain these neural pathways even deeper for us. And I remember,
One time in my recovery journey after doing ayahuasca, I did ketamine the next day. And I remember ayahuasca smacking me in the face. I literally felt like I got smacked in the face from that experience. She really gave me a rough time in my integration process. Like, what are you doing? You know, this is not, this is not respecting the medicine. And, you know, we’re dealing with, as you know,
another consciousness. Like it’s a spirit. Ayahuasca is a spirit. We’re welcoming in the spirit of Ayahuasca, this consciousness, this plant consciousness into our body. As Dennis McKenna says, he believes that the plants want to experience our consciousness just as much as we want to experience the consciousness of the plant. And so when we’re inviting the plant consciousness into us, it’s going to keep working with us and communicating with us and sometimes punishing us, you know? So it’s important that we respect the medicine.
respect the teachings of it, especially in that integration process.
Sam Believ (28:05.435)
Beautiful what you just said is exactly what I tell groups before they go home, you know, what are you going to do with this newly discovered flexibility? And if somebody goes back after the retreat in that open state and go visit a toxic relative or start watching news or scrolling through their phone, it will wreck you because this flexibility, it can be used in the wrong way.
And ayahuasca is a very strict mother sometimes and it’s beautiful observing how it works. So we talk about ayahuasca and taking big doses of, normal doses of medicines. What about microdosing? I know you’re a big fan of microdosing.
Danielle Nova (28:53.422)
I am. I’m such a big fan of microdosing. It has its role, you know, and I think it’s a helpful maintenance tool, especially for people that are wanting that maintenance support. It can be, you know, traditionally a lot of people are microdosing with psilocybin, with LSD. Some people are microdosing with Amanita muscaria, ayahuasca, with the vine itself.
A lot of my experience has been with microdosing with psilocybin and LSD, and especially recovering my brain from being on all these medications. It really helped me get my brain back online and helped me, allowed me to think clearly, allowed me to be able to function. And, you know, microdosing is a powerful tool for, it can be a powerful tool for addiction, interruption.
for overall well -being and balance. It’s a non -specific amplifier, so it’s definitely gonna amplify underlying challenges that people might be experiencing or emotions and bring them to the surface to be healed. And it’s a powerful tool and an ally that, you know, we like to say microdosing is like an electric bike. You still have to pedal and do the work, but the microdosing is gonna accelerate your process for you.
And it’s, yeah, I’m such a big advocate for microdosing. It’s such a powerful tool, especially a maintenance tool for people that are in addiction recovery.
Sam Believ (30:25.019)
That’s a great analogy about the electric bike. I like that. I’m going to use it. Sometimes when people are on antidepressants and they want to come to the retreat and they want to experience ayahuasca, obviously they need to get off the antidepressants first, which is very difficult to do by yourself.
Danielle Nova (30:30.944)
Excellent.
Sam Believ (30:45.659)
because you know, you describe it yourself how strong the addiction to some of those antidepressants can be. So sometimes some of them use microdosing. So as they sort of start to lower their dosage of antidepressants, they start to take the microdose and it can really help. Do you know anything about it? Can you maybe share a protocol or something like that? Obviously not a medical advice.
Danielle Nova (31:13.644)
Can you, a protocol around antidepressants?
Sam Believ (31:18.107)
like quitting antidepressants and maybe using microdosing to help.
Danielle Nova (31:23.918)
It’s a really great question, yeah. You know, I don’t have a lot of experience in combining the withdrawal process with microdosing. Some people use microdosing to aid and support their withdrawal process from coming off of a certain medication. I’m such an advocate for one thing at a time.
personally because we just don’t know what the interactions are when it comes to combining the two. So, you know, it’s really up to a person to figure out what works for them. Some people might find that microdosing mushrooms eases their withdrawal from coming off of antidepressants. Other people might feel like it makes the intensifies the withdrawal process. So it’s really up to the individual to kind of figure that out for themselves. But.
And oftentimes there might be some contraindications, right? So if someone’s taking antidepressants and they’re microdosing with psilocybin, they both work on the same receptors. And we don’t know what the, there isn’t research that’s being done on the long -term implications of combining the two. So it is playing with fire and we just, we just don’t know. But if people are finding relief, you know, it might be temporary relief to help ease their process from getting off of.
the pharmaceutical drugs. And I’m such an advocate for, you know, people being able to use microdosing, especially when they come off of the psychiatric drugs to help support their process and rebuilding their brains and, you know, helping their mood, especially from getting off of psychiatric drugs. It can be really difficult. The biggest thing that I want people to know is that coming off of psychiatric drugs is really difficult at the beginning for most people.
it can make your depression way worse. It can give you hundreds of withdrawal symptoms. And when I was going through that process, I thought that that was me. I remember going to my doctor and telling him these horrible withdrawal symptoms that I was experiencing and he was saying, well, this is a sign that you need to be on medication. And that was just not true. There was actually a huge withdrawal process. So I really…
Danielle Nova (33:42.742)
Encourage people to educate themselves about the withdrawal process. I have a training at the psychedelic society where I train you All about what can happen in the withdrawal process just to get you really informed the problem with these Medications is that there’s there isn’t any informed consent when I came on these medications I was never told hey by the way, you’re gonna get addicted to them independent on them and it’s gonna be hell to get off of them, so
There isn’t that informed consent and I want people to be informed of potential withdrawal symptoms that they might be experiencing when coming off of these psychiatric drugs so that they can know, oh, this is the drug, this is not me. And to stay strong in that withdrawal process. Separate yourself from the withdrawal. That just because you might be suffering coming off of the medication doesn’t mean that there’s something wrong with you, doesn’t mean that you necessarily need the medication.
And it’s not right, it might not be right for every person right now. You know, sometimes people come off medications and it’s just too difficult for them to stay off of them. And that’s okay, you know. But give yourself space to recognize that it could be a time of difficulty. And for some people it’s not, you know. But go low, go slow, just like you would with psychedelic medicines, we always say with microdosing, go low and slow. And…
and experiment with things, you know? And if the microdosing does not bring relief as you come off of the psychiatric drugs, maybe that is not the right time. Maybe the time to start microdosing would be once you’ve completely come off of these psychiatric drugs and introduced the microdosing later down the line.
Sam Believ (35:29.659)
Well, apart from micro dosing, let’s say somebody really feels like doing iOS scan, the only thing that’s stopping them is the SSRI antidepressant. So what routines or maybe behaviors or activities you could recommend to somebody to ease that process.
Danielle Nova (35:55.598)
So many things. The biggest thing is get into nature every day. Put your back up against trees, lay on the grass, like absorb the energy from nature, really get reconnected with nature. There’s a lot of different supplements that you can take, IV therapies, like IV nutrient therapy really helped me as I came off of all these psychiatric drugs.
See a doctor, get some blood work. You know, oftentimes when you’re taking a lot of medications, it can actually disrupt a lot of your blood work and cause a lot of symptoms. So, you know, you want to make sure that you might be deficient in some areas. I know I was super deficient. I was not taking care of myself when I was on all these drugs. I just let my health go. When I came off of the medications, I completely changed my diet. You know, having an anti -inflammatory diet is really helpful.
and supportive when coming off of medications. Having community, you know, meeting friends, being out in the community, having support. We have psychedelic recovery groups multiple times a week. This is such a place to come to support yourself as you’re coming off medications. Speaking around your experience that you’re going through with people that get it is so helpful. So you don’t have to be alone going through this process.
breath work, yoga, moving your body, listening to music, getting connected with your spirituality, with the sun, getting as much sun as you possibly can, forest bathing. I did a lot of float tanks. There’s different bio hacking tools that you can use, peptides. There’s so many tools out there to support your process, but I don’t wanna overwhelm someone too much. A lot of this stuff can come after you’ve withdrawn.
off of these medications, but just really focusing on what your goals are. Who do you want to become? It’s staying really positive. Affirmations like, I am healing myself. I can do this. I have every confidence that I can do this. Developing a loving relationship with yourself is the most important medicine that you can possibly have as you go through this withdrawal process. Yeah, and changing that internal dialogue is really…
Danielle Nova (38:17.528)
supportive and helpful when withdrawing.
Sam Believ (38:21.787)
Thank you, I think those are all great suggestions. So, and yeah, it’s important to choose a few to begin with, because otherwise if you fail at one, then you will kind of give up on all of them.
In your work with clients one -on -one and helping them overcome their addiction, can you maybe share a story or some very impressive result and maybe what were the key ingredients in it?
Danielle Nova (38:54.574)
Absolutely. One of my favorite stories was an individual that had been on medications for most of their life ever since they were a child and also addicted to opioids. And when we started working together, they thought they were going to be on medications for the rest of their life.
And they were told that they had all these things wrong with them and they believed that all these things were wrong with them and they really didn’t believe in themselves. And through our process of working together, they were able to come off of all the medications that they were on safely under the care of a doctor. They were able to release their addiction to, or dependency to suboxone, to opioids and…
They completely transformed themselves and they were working with ayahuasca and really went through a transformational process. And I think one of the biggest elements of it is that they’ve started believing in themselves, that they started believing that it was possible to heal themselves, that there wasn’t anything wrong with themselves, that they weren’t crazy and that they could live a life free of addiction and free of dependency.
on these medications, which is incredibly powerful for someone that’s been on them since they were a child to finally experience life, what life is like off of these medications. And it was a very slow process and they were very committed to the work. And I think their connection with their spirituality helped them a lot. They became very spiritually connected and felt guided throughout this process and having someone.
you know, having me to support them in it, someone that’s been through that process and can inform them, like, this is very normal to feel this way, you know, you’re not going to feel this way forever. This is what you can do to support yourself and transform is incredibly helpful. And so they’ve, yeah, they’ve been free of medications for almost a year now and they’re doing really well and they’re back functioning and living their, a new life. They’ve completely transformed their life.
Danielle Nova (41:19.214)
And I’m so proud of them. They’re so amazing. And it’s been such an honor to support them in that process. And I tell them that this is, they are my mission. You know, I want to help more people. I want to help anyone that is wanting to transform out of addiction, out of suffering, and to help them get them to a place of liberation.
Sam Believ (41:42.203)
great story thank you for for sharing it you mentioned that getting connected spiritually really helped that person my own spiritual connection came pretty much directly after my first ayahuasca experience and it was gradually expanded by ayahuasca but before that i must say i was really not connected so how does one discover
spiritual connection or create one without let’s say use of plant medicines.
Danielle Nova (42:18.83)
I think it’s a really great question. I think a lot of research can be helpful of understanding that the separation between us and our spirituality is an illusion, that we are actually spiritual beings having a human experience. And we’ve been conditioned to be so separate from spirituality or that spirituality is religion, where for some people it is religion, but for other people it’s just a way of life.
I am a spiritual being in this human body, but I trust that my soul travels for many lifetimes. And I think the biggest way people can connect with their spirituality is connecting with their soul, with their desires, with what their beliefs are, and questioning their beliefs. Like, do I believe this because it’s been programmed into me, or because this is what I actually believe? And…
Are there any signs in a person’s life that are guiding them to believe that there’s something greater than themselves? We are the tree, we are the leaves on the tree and the tree itself. We are a drop in the ocean and the drop itself. We are the fractal, we are a fractal of the divine. That’s what the psychedelic plants teach, taught me was that, you know, we are a fractal of our, of spirit, right? Of God.
And those are just my own personal beliefs, but I think it’s important as people develop their spirituality to develop it on their own. It’s a very personalized journey. Some way that people might start is if they see 11 -11 on the clock or synchronicities or signs. Even experiencing a small synchronicity, that is magic, that is spirit, that is a connection with the universe. And we are the entire universe experiencing itself within ourselves.
So yeah, I just encourage people to do a lot of research on spirituality and on the universe, even simulation theory, and so people can develop their own belief systems on their own. But it’s a very personal journey and you really do have to feel called. I don’t know how I would necessarily teach someone about spirituality unless they don’t have curiosity or interest or a personal experience of opening up spiritually themselves.
Sam Believ (44:38.843)
this is why it is kind of hard to start and this is why I personally like ayahuasca so much because it can be a jump start to that world and kind of wake all of that up but it’s obviously hard if you’re addicted to antidepressants and you can’t have ayahuasca and then microdosing is also questionable so it’s a tough position to be in but…
what comes to mind is maybe breathing exercises or something that can put you in that state and you’re not necessarily taking any substances or some form of a prayer if you believe in something. So, but yeah, tell us.
Danielle Nova (45:21.23)
I love that prayer, meditation.
Sam Believ (45:25.307)
Yeah. Tell us why are you excited about Amanita Muscaria?
Danielle Nova (45:31.918)
I’m excited about Amanita because it’s known as the anti -anxiety mushroom. Currently, given the legal paradigm around psychedelics, Amanita is unregulated, at least within the US, and it is grown in nature all over the world. It’s found under pine trees, and what they’re finding is that it works on the GABA receptors of the body, so it is very relaxing and sedating.
and helpful for nervousness and anxiety. And there’s the whole paradigm and epidemic of dependency to anti -anxiety medications coming off of benzodiazepines for me was the most difficult process that wreaked havoc on my life and pure hell. So the fact that there’s a substance that can help people heal their anxiety, that’s not.
addictive or not harmful to them is amazing and so exciting. So yeah, I’m a big advocate for microdosing Emonida mascaria mushroom.
Sam Believ (46:37.561)
Yeah, for those who don’t know Amanita Muscaria is the fly agaric. It’s the mushroom with the red top and the white dots on it. It’s the mushroom, it’s the mushroom in the emoji -cons, sorry, the smiley faces. And I think it’s, there’s this story about how Santa Claus is actually that mushroom. Do you know that story? Can you tell it to the listeners?
Danielle Nova (46:58.798)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. I’ve heard that it’s been debunked, so I don’t know how true it is, but some of the myth around it is that Santa Claus was a shaman of the Amanita muscaria mushroom, and it was going through a prohibition, so they had to put the Amanita down the chimney.
and in order to be able to get the aminida in the house and aminida are traditionally grown under pine trees. So it’s like the presence underneath the pine tree. And so if you eat raw aminida muscaria mushroom, it creates something called the ipotenic acid, which is important to not eat large amounts of that because it can create really uncomfortable sensations in the body. So it needs, you need to take the raw mushroom and take it through a heating process and decarboxylate it into muscimol.
And something that can do that is if you drink your urine or a lot of the reindeer would eat the Amanita muscaria and then they would drink the urine from the reindeer because it would go through that heating process and that decarboxylation process. Once the Amanita muscaria goes through that decarboxylation process, it creates a psychedelic effect. So that’s why there’s the flying reindeer and yeah, it creates the visions. So yeah.
I don’t know how true that story is. Again, I’ve heard it’s been completely debunked, but that is one iteration of the story that I’m familiar with.
Sam Believ (48:35.439)
the coincidences are many and very very suspicious. So I do like to believe some of those stories but yeah it’s good to question them. It’s interesting how traditionally so Amanita muskara grows in North America, it grows in Europe, it grows all over Siberia basically almost everywhere even here in Colombia I’ve seen it in the forest. So
Danielle Nova (48:39.53)
Exactly.
Sam Believ (49:01.551)
It’s interesting to see that right now I think you and me as well, we work with indigenous traditions of South America and work with ayahuasca and other plants that they have preserved. But unfortunately we lost our own psychedelic tradition. But still somewhere in Siberia, for example, there are still shamans that work with mushrooms because that’s what they have available. And in different countries there’s many more psychedelics and many more of them to discover.
But I believe in the past, every culture had a psychedelic as this tool of connection and we lost ours. So we had to kind of adopt what indigenous people used to have. And I’m so grateful to them for preserving that tradition because it’s a great one and it’s an ancient one and they don’t only have the compound itself. I mean, you can still find the mushroom, but what about…
everything else that comes with it, you know, the songs and the chants and spiritual practices. I think we’re living in a very great time where all of that is available. And yes, there are also great challenges, you know, like in talking about addiction, like fentanyl crisis and mental health crisis and…
Danielle Nova (50:20.078)
Yeah.
Sam Believ (50:22.715)
all this, you know, they say close to 30 % of Americans are on antidepressants. It’s crazy. But at the same time, we also get tools to work with like ayahuasca. So I don’t know where I’m going with that, but can you maybe talk a little bit about from your experience about mental health crisis, addiction crisis, what’s going on with fentanyl? Could plant medicines be helpful with that? Or is it just too strong?
Danielle Nova (50:51.726)
I think you said it beautifully that we’re going through a crisis right now. I had no idea it was 30 % of Americans, but I believe it. I mean, there’s millions of Americans and millions of people around the world that are dependent on pharmaceutical drugs. And we have been conditioned to believe that that’s not addiction, that addiction is heroin or fentanyl, which that is addiction, right? But so is taking something
Every single day that you’re dependent on that you can’t get off of. That’s addiction as well. You know, we’re even seeing phone addiction, right? Like people are addicted to their phones, they’re addicted to social media, they’re addicted to the internet. It’s a paradigm of self escapism and not being able to process emotions. For me, addiction saved my life. It really did. I probably would have taken my life had I not had addiction. Addiction…
helped me soothe myself. It helped me find God, really, at the beginning of my addiction. It was like an abusive boyfriend. I felt love from addiction. I felt like it was solving my problems. It was keeping me company. It was keeping me safe. It was keeping me held. And ultimately, it became a very abusive relationship that I hated and I wanted to get out of. So I think that there’s a lot of people that are suffering in relationship with substances.
thought patterns, behaviors that are helping them in some way, but are also really abusive and hurting them. And it’s up to a person to understand what is that, what’s happening. And fentanyl is definitely, there’s a huge epidemic of fentanyl addiction. I think that the silent epidemic is with these psychiatric drugs. Like no one is talking about how…
addictive they are and how difficult they are to come off of, especially these benzodiazepines. People are getting super hooked. Benzodiazepines like Xanax and Valium, people are on them for decades when really they’re only supposed to be prescribed for four to six months at max. They’re supposed to be rescue medications, not long -term medications. And they cause some serious problems coming off of them. And…
Danielle Nova (53:11.342)
no one’s really talking about that. And so that’s a big part of my mission is to educate people about how addictive these substances are and that people don’t have to be on them for the rest of their lives. That there is life beyond dependency to a lot of these medications, but it’s so important that people have support as they’re coming off of them and do it safely because there’s ways that you can harm yourself if you don’t do.
don’t do it safely.
Sam Believ (53:43.355)
I think those are beautiful words and I think it’s a great also way to finish the episode. So, Daniel, where can people find more about you?
Danielle Nova (53:58.126)
So people can find me through Instagram. My Instagram is connectwithd, also psychedelicssocietiesf. You can also find us on our website, psychedelicrecovery .org, psychedelicssocietiesf .org. I’m working on my own personal website right now, which is danielnovah .com. I do one -on -one.
guidance for people that are wanting to come off of medications or break out of addiction. You know, I’m really a big advocate and support for people to take them through this process of healing. I also help people with microdosing and people that are just wanting to learn how to microdose to transform and grow personally. I’m also developing a training, a microdosing facilitator training.
that teaches people how to become facilitators of microdosing experiences. And I’m working with Dr. Jim Fadiman and Adam at Flowstate Micro on a new project and program. And that’s going to be launching in a couple months. So inviting people that are wanting to be trained in this, in microdosing to join the program. And I’m also working on a couple other projects through the Psychedelic Society that I’m feeling.
really excited about and people can find us on our website.
Sam Believ (55:22.201)
Thank you, Danielle. Thank you so much for sharing your story. And I think it’s beautiful how you not only overcame your own struggles, but also then went ahead and started helping others. It was really great. Thank you.
Danielle Nova (55:38.67)
Thank you so much. I really appreciate the opportunity to speak to your community. The last thing I’ll say is we have a lot of integration groups. Psychedelic Recovery is our program. We offer nine groups a month where people can come and process their psychedelic experiences, especially around addiction recovery and just welcoming people to these groups. The Psychedelic Society has 15 support groups in total a month, all online integration circles where people can come and process their experiences.
and we offer a variety of classes to teach people how to use psychedelics safely and intentionally and want people to learn how to use these substances to transform. And thank you, Sam, so much for your work with the medicine. I feel your heart behind it, your care behind it. Really appreciate everything that you’re doing with this podcast and grateful to share here today.
Sam Believ (56:31.003)
Thank you, Danielle. Guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you like our podcast and would like to support us and the psychedelic renaissance at large, please follow us and leave a like, whatever you’re listening to this episode. As always with you, the host, Sam Bileev, and our guest today was Danielle Nova.